Reality TV has more than exploded over the past 15 years and yes, "Survivor" has played a huge part in the genre's success since its debut in the Summer of 2000. Today, Reality TV is a staple on nearly every single TV and cable network. Thousands upon thousands can now say that they have appeared, or competed, on a Reality TV show and the number continues to grow. But what happens when your fifteen minutes of fame is up? That is the topic of the new documentary film, "The 16th Minute," airing tomorrow (Wed, Oct 22 at 10 p.m. EST) on the AXS TV channel (check your local listings). Today, I spoke with the film's director, Paul Grassi, who was a former Reality TV personality himself, having been a finalist on Season 5 of "The Mole."
Paul Grassi, director and partial subject of the Reality TV documentary, "The 16th Minute."
Photo by James Breene, courtesy of Paul Grassi. Used with permission.
In Grassi's documentary, a number of stories within the realm of Reality TV are explored, with interviews including former "Survivor" winner Richard Hatch, Angelina Pivarnick from "Jersey Shore," Jason Prager from "Beauty and the Geek," Frenchy from "Rock of Love," and Marcellas Reynolds from "Big Brother," among others from shows like "Hell's Kitchen," "The Amazing Race" and more (Hatch is joined by fellow "Survivor" alum Michael Skupin, Billy Garcia and Russell Swan). He also delves into the psychology of Reality TV with celebrity psychiatric guru, Dr. Drew Pinsky and Murtz Jaffer from "Reality Obsessed."
My full review of "The 16th Minute" will post on Wednesday morning, but here is my exclusive interview with Paul Grassi held a day before the airing of his documentary:
Tom Santilli, Survivor Examiner: So your film, "The 16th Minute," is all about that time right after your fifteen minutes of fame have expired. How would you describe what that sixteenth minute is? Is it a state of depression? Is it the same for everyone? How would you sum up what it's like to feel and to live and to experience that sixteenth minute?
Paul Grassi: I believe the sixteenth minute varies from person to person, obviously. But throughout doing the documentary, I noticed it was becoming a growing trend, that usually people who have been on shows, give a cautionary tale to people who want to be on shows. For the most part, people's experiences either weren't what they expected, or didn't live up to what they thought it would be. So I think the sixteenth minute is a lot of regret and you know, thinking of the past.
Tom Santilli: In the film, you talk to a bunch of former Survivor players. Richard Hatch vehemently believes in his innocence with the whole tax evasion case, then there is Michael Skupin, who was accused of some shady business practices recently but who has denied any wrong-doing, and then there is Billy Garcia, who was voted out second on his season, appeared in two episodes, and now thinks he is one of the biggest Reality stars going. I've spoken with Hatch and he is very convincing to talk to...but do you feel like any of these guys from Survivor are, well, a bit delusional in their thinking?
Paul Grassi: I think Hatch is different than anyone else, because he was the first one. He's the Godfather of Reality TV. He started it all. At the end of the day, his experience differs from people because he was the first. In the beginning, we didn't know what to do with these celebrities who were just ordinary people. I think he set the stage for a lot of people to follow, in thinking that they could have the same level of recognition. Hatch got a huge amount of recognition that in turn led to the worst moments of his life. Do I think they're delusional? I think they're delusional because Survivor is the number one reality show of this time. Everybody pretty much copied or came after Survivor. So when you are on Survivor, you are like the cream of the crop of Reality TV stars. When you go to these charity events, autograph signings, it's always the Survivors and the Survivor fan base that make up the majority of the people that are there. When you get on Surviv or you become the cream of the crop of these D-List celebrities (laughs). That's what I think makes them a bit more delusional than your average Reality star. Which by the way, your average person is delusional as well, but with these it's just a different type.
Tom Santilli: Hatch's story is interesting to because of the persona that was created around him on the show. Yes, he did all of those things out there, but he was edited to be the "snake." This reputation didn't help with public perception after the show, because we all believed that this "snake" was definitely capable of doing some shady things, even though nobody had any facts about what was going on with him. You talk about the "bad edit" people often get or complain about getting in the film.
Paul Grassi: Well, Reality TV brings out the best and the worst of anyone who is on it. I think what you'll find from the documentary is, although there are people who say they had a bad edit, or things were edited in a certain way, they all did what they did and said what they said. It may have been hyped up or taken out of context. So you're aware of what you're doing and you know people are watching you and your actions I think are a conscious decision that people make.
Tom Santilli: There are so many people now who have been on a Reality TV show, it's impossible to make a blanket statement about all of them. But generally speaking, do you think that a lot of these people, or people that you interviewed for the movie, were happy people prior to their time on TV and that their experience made them into worse people? Or were many of these people dealing with the same issues they'll end up dealing with after their fifteen minutes are up?
Paul Grassi: I believe it's just amplified now that they're off. Anyone who would get cast for a show is a Type-A personality, or is driven. They're not going to cast someone who is shy, or is just going to sit in the corner because it doesn't make for great television. So a lot of people who are on these shows are out there, they're outlandish, crazy people. But at the end of the day, they know what they're getting into and what they're doing.
Tom Santilli: The other part of this is that in addition to being tremendously popular, Reality TV shows are incredibly cheap to make and produce, in comparison to "regular" TV shows. Are people being used or exploited by networks and corporations when it comes to Reality TV?
Paul Grassi: Absolutely, to a certain degree. We both use each other. It's just that the networks make out a hell of a lot more than the Reality stars. A star uses the network to get their name, their face, their brand, or whatever they're trying to sell. And for the most part, people on television are trying to sell something. Whether it's themselves, or a product. We use them for that and then the networks use us to make millions of advertising dollars. Most reality stars don't see a penny of, if anything. So it's a two-way street with the using, but the networks win in the end. And it's not going anywhere by the way. It will be here forever.
Tom Santilli: There is a lot in the documentary too with Dr. Drew, dealing with responsibility. Like in the NFL, there is a lot of discussion about the players' health after their time in the league, and if the league should do anything more to take care of their participants. On Reality TV, there are many people that get screwed up both physically and mentally by their experiences on TV. Whose responsibility should it be to look out for and take care of those that appear on Reality TV shows?
Paul Grassi: Whether it be for legal reasons or that they truly care, all shows do offer some sort of assistance after the show airs. They offer psychological help, people to speak with. That is available, but simply to answer your question, I think it's more our responsibility. Yes, we go into this knowing what we are getting into. There is not one Reality TV person who goes on to a television program and doesn't know they're going on television and that there's a potential for millions of people to watch you. Nobody can say anything otherwise because you knew. So I think it's our responsibility in the end.
Tom Santilli: And so for you, and maybe pretty much everyone else, the fifteen minutes outweighs the sixteenth minute?
Paul Grassi: Yes. And you see in the movie, every person I ask, no matter what they're experience - and there's a lot of people I spoke to that didn't make it into the film as well - every single person that I have ever spoken to, if you ask them if they'd do it again, instantly they say yes. Instantly. Hatch went to prison, probably the worst experience of his life, and it's ongoing, and if you ask him if he'd do it again, in a heartbeat he'd say yes. I think Frenchy was the only one, but she didn't understand the question.
Tom Santilli: (Laughs) That doesn't surprise me for some reason. So could it be that the whole "trauma" associated with the sixteenth minute is being a bit overblown? Many would argue that you at least got to experience your fifteen minutes, which is more than many people out there. That it comes across more like whining. Only three Survivors, for example, have died, and all three were not associated at all with their time on the show, or anxiety, or depression. Is the health and well-being of Reality stars really even an issue?
Paul Grassi: No it's not overblown. Once you have that little bit of attention...we are A-Type personalities that want our voices heard. Now we're given that platform to reach countless people, that we've never been able to reach before. When someone takes that away from you, obviously it's going to hurt and sting a lot more than the average little pitfalls in your life. So is it blown out of proportion? No. I just don't think many people can understand it unless you've been through it. That's why I wanted to do this film from the very beginning, I wanted people to hear just that. Everyone can sit and talk about Survivor and watch Richard Hatch, but not many people have heard Richard Hatch's story from Richard Hatch's mouth. Look at Billy Garcia. He was all over the place and like you said, he believes he is one of the most famous people from his two episodes he was on Survivor. But he is Billy Garcia and that's what he does for a living. He has to make that work for him and he does. I guy like that, you take away his doo-rag and his shirt and his opportunity to talk about Survivor, I mean, what is Billy? He's going to slink into a massive depression that I don't think you'd be able to get him back from.
Tom Santilli: One of the most interesting parts of the documentary shows you uncovering an actual school, where people pay to attend and they teach them how to become a reality star. First question about this: How much do people pay for this again?
Paul Grassi: I believe the classes are like $300.
Tom Santilli: And has the school had any success? I mean, are graduates then going on to become Reality TV stars, or is this just a major scam to cash in on people's delusions that they can be on TV?
Paul Grassi: Originally when I started the film and I was asked to go and speak at the Reality School, my initial thing was to expose this snake oil salesman, Robert Galinsky, for what he was doing, taking advantage of people. But what happened is, I went to the school once, I went there twice, I started listening and I started realizing that it actually did have a lot of value. If somebody really was trying to get on Reality TV and they came to this school, they could learn a lot. The only problem that I found with this is, most people that are trying that hard to get on that they would go to a school, aren't the ones that are going to be picked. Because they're going to try too hard. They're going to go in there thinking they know what a producer wants, and they won't get cast. I saw value in what Galinsky was doing. I think he's had maybe one or two people get on shows, but nothing big. There hasn't been major success stories, but there is value in listening to what he is saying. I went in their to expose him, and I found out there was some value.
Tom Santilli: One of the subjects in the documentary is Robert Hesse who appeared twice on Hell's Kitchen and who went on afterwards to be a tremendously successful celebrity chef. It isn't stated in the film, but I couldn't help but think that maybe this was because he was on a show that involved actual talent...an actual skill set, cooking. When people criticize Reality TV, do you think it should be aimed more at shows like "Jersey Shore" or "The Bachelor," who cast people simply for their looks, versus shows like Hell's Kitchen where people actually have to possess a certain skill set in order to get on the show?
Paul Grassi: No because at the end of the day, not everybody that is on Hell's Kitchen goes on to be a celebrity chef. Not everybody on Hell's Kitchen even goes on to work in the cooking field after the show. You may have someone who is a crazy nut-job chef, do you think those producers think that that person is going to be the one to run one of Gordon Ramsay's restaurants? No. They're after television. Then you have people who have tremendous talent, who, if they are exposed in the right way, will be hugely successful afterwards. We all laugh at Jersey Shore, but all of them except Angelina went on to become millionaires. To me, it's a slippery slope, because it's Reality TV, there has to be some sensationalism, something crazy.
Tom Santilli: In the film, you sort of ask an introspective question to yourself, that maybe making this documentary in and of itself is your attempt to extend your fifteen minutes of fame. Do you think that was the case then?
Paul Grassi: I believe that I question it at times, absolutely. It took a long time to make this movie, so there were times that I doubted what I was doing and why I was doing it. It took a lot of my own time, money and effort and put it into this. When it wasn't getting the attention it deserved, I started saying, what am I doing this for? Today when I watch it, I say it's a great film, I'm glad I got it out there, but what did I do it all for? That's why I put it in the film, that maybe in the back of my mind, I want to be famous again, I want to be on TV again. I'm perfectly honest enough to at least explore that possibility.
Tom Santilli: So what is more of a passion for you, is it filmmaking or is it Reality TV? If we see more from you down the road, will it be in the realm of Reality TV?
Paul Grassi: I'm thinking films. Making this film opened my eyes to a talent I didn't know I had. I'm looking to explore more films, I liked this experience, enjoyed it a lot.
Be sure to check back for my full review of "The 16th Minute," and be sure to tune into the documentary on AXS TV, Wednesday night at 10 p.m. EST. You can follow Paul Grassi on Twitter, @paulgrassi.
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